Interviewer: David Greene

Winnie Kabintie is a journalist and Communications Specialist based in Nairobi, Kenya. As an award-winning youth media advocate, she is passionate about empowering young people with Media and Information Literacy skills, enabling them to critically engage with and shape the evolving digital  media landscape in meaningful ways.

Greene: To get us started, can you tell us what the term free expression means to you? 

I think it's the opportunity to speak in a language that you understand and speak about subjects of concern to you and to anybody who is affected or influenced by the subject of conversation. To me, it is the ability to communicate openly and share ideas or information without interference, control, or restrictions. 

As a journalist, it means having the freedom to report on matters affecting society and my work without censorship or limitations on where that information can be shared. Beyond individual expression, it is also about empowering communities to voice their concerns and highlight issues that impact their lives. Additionally, access to information is a vital component of freedom of expression, as it ensures people can make informed decisions and engage meaningfully in societal discourse because knowledge is power.

Greene: You mention the freedom to speak and to receive information in your language. How do you see that currently? Are language differences a big obstacle that you see currently? 

If I just look at my society—I like to contextualize things—we have Swahili, which is a national language, and we have English as the secondary official language. But when it comes to policies, when it comes to public engagement, we only see this happening in documents that are only written in English. This means when it comes to the public barazas (community gatherings) interpretation is led by a few individuals, which creates room for disinformation and misinformation. I believe the language barrier is an obstacle to freedom of speech. We've also seen it from the civil society dynamics, where you're going to engage the community but you don't speak the same language as them, then it becomes very difficult for you to engage them on the subject at hand. And if you have to use a translator, sometimes what happens is you're probably using a translator for whom their only advantage, or rather the only advantage they bring to the table, is the fact that they understand different languages. But they're not experts in the topic that you're discussing.

Greene: Why do you think the government only produces materials in English? Do you think part of that is because they want to limit who is able to understand them? Or is it just, are they lazy or they just disregard the other languages? 

In all fairness, I think it comes from the systematic approach on how things run. This has been the way of doing things, and it's easier to do it because translating some words from, for example, English to Swahili is very hard. And you see, as much as we speak Swahili in Kenya—and it's our national language—the kind of Swahili we speak is also very diluted or corrupted with English and Sheng—I like to call “ki-shenglish”. I know there were attempts to translate the new Kenyan Constitution, and they did translate some bits of the summarized copy, but even then it wasn’t the full Constitution. We don't even know how to say certain words in Swahili from English which makes it difficult to translate many things. So I think it's just an innocent omission. 

Greene: What makes you passionate about freedom of expression?

 As a journalist and youth media advocate, my passion for freedom of expression stems from its fundamental role in empowering individuals and communities to share their stories, voice their concerns, and drive meaningful change. Freedom of expression is not just about the right to speak—it’s about the ability to question, to challenge injustices, and to contribute to shaping a better society.

For me, freedom of expression is deeply personal as I like to question, interrogate and I am not just content with the status quo. As a journalist, I rely on this freedom to shed light on critical issues affecting society, to amplify marginalized voices, and to hold power to account. As a youth advocate, I’ve witnessed how freedom of expression enables young people to challenge stereotypes, demand accountability, and actively participate in shaping their future. We saw this during the recent Gen Z revolution in Kenya when youth took to the streets to reject the proposed Finance Bill.

Freedom of speech is also about access. It matters to me that people not only have the ability to speak freely, but also have the platforms to articulate their issues. You can have all the voice you need, but if you do not have the platforms, then it becomes nothing. So it's also recognizing that we need to create the right platforms to advance freedom of speech. These, in our case, include platforms like radio and social media platforms. 

So we need to ensure that we have connectivity to these platforms. For example, in the rural areas of our countries, there are some areas that are not even connected to the internet. They don't have the infrastructure including electricity. It then becomes difficult for those people to engage in digital media platforms where everybody is now engaging. I remember recently during the Reject Finance Bill process in Kenya, the political elite realized that they could leverage social media and meet with and engage the youth. I remember the President was summoned to an X-space and he showed up and there was dialogue with hundreds of young people. But what this meant was that the youth in rural Kenya who didn’t have access to the internet or X were left out of that national, historic conversation. That's why I say it's not just as simple as saying you are guaranteed freedom of expression by the Constitution. It's also how governments are ensuring that we have the channels to advance this right. 

Greene: Have you had a personal experience or any personal experiences that shaped how you feel about freedom of expression? Maybe a situation where you felt like it was being denied to you or someone close to you was in that situation?

At a personal level I believe that I am a product of speaking out and I try to use my voice to make an impact! There is also this one particular incident that stands out during my early career as a journalist. In 2014 I amplified a story from a video shared on facebook by writing a news article that was published on The Kenya Forum, which at the time was one of the two publications that were fully digital in the country covering news and feature articles.

The story, which was a case of gender based assault, gained traction drawing attention to the unfortunate incident that had seen a woman stripped naked allegedly for being “dressed indecently.” The public uproar sparked the famous #MyDressMyChoice protest in Kenya where women took to the streets countrywide to protest against sexual violence.

Greene: Wow. Do you have any other specific stories that you can tell about the time when you spoke up and you felt that it made a difference? Or maybe you spoke up, and there was some resistance to you speaking up? 

I've had many moments where I've spoken up and it's made a difference including the incident I shared in the previous question. But, on the other hand, I also had a moment where I did not speak out years ago, when a classmate in primary school was accused of theft. 

There was this girl once in class, she was caught with books that didn't belong to her and she was accused of stealing them. One of the books she had was my deskmate’s and I was there when she had borrowed it. So she was defending herself and told the teacher, “Winnie was there when I borrowed the book.” When the teacher asked me if this was true I just said, “I don't know.” That feedback was her last line of defense and the girl got expelled from school. So I’ve always wondered, if I'd said yes, would the teacher have been more lenient and realized that she had probably just borrowed the rest of the books as well? I was only eight years old at the time, but because of that, and how bad the outcome made me feel, I vowed to myself to always stand for the truth even when it’s unpopular with everyone else in the room. I would never look the other way in the face of an injustice or in the face of an issue that I can help resolve. I will never walk away in silence.

Greene: Have you kept to that since then? 

Absolutely.

Greene: Okay, I want to switch tracks a little bit. Do you feel there are situations where it's appropriate for government to limit someone's speech?

Yes, absolutely. In today’s era of disinformation and hate speech, it’s crucial to have legal frameworks that safeguard society. We live in a society where people, especially politicians, often make inflammatory statements to gain political mileage, and such remarks can lead to serious consequences, including civil unrest.

Kenya’s experience during the 2007-2008 elections is a powerful reminder of how harmful speech can escalate tensions and pit communities against each other. That period taught us the importance of being mindful of what leaders say, as their words have the power to unite or divide.

I firmly believe that governments must strike a balance between protecting freedom of speech and preventing harm. While everyone has the right to express themselves, that right ends where it begins to infringe on the rights and safety of others. It’s about ensuring that freedom of speech is exercised responsibly to maintain peace and harmony in society.

Greene: So what do we have to be careful about with giving the government the power to regulate speech? You mentioned hate speech can be hard to define. What's the risk of letting the government define that?

The risk is that the government may overstep its boundaries, as often happens. Another concern is the lack of consistent and standardized enforcement. For instance, someone with influence or connections within the government might escape accountability for their actions, while an activist doing the same thing could face arrest. This disparity in treatment highlights the risks of uneven application of the law and potential misuse of power.

Greene: Earlier you mentioned special concern for access to information. You mentioned children and you mentioned women. Both of those are groups of people where, at least in some places, someone else—not the government, but some other person—might control their access, right? I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about why it's so important to ensure access to information for those particular groups. 

I believe home is the foundational space where access to information and freedom of expression are nurtured. Families play a crucial role in cultivating these values, and it’s important for parents to be intentional about fostering an environment where open communication and access to information are encouraged. Parents have a responsibility to create opportunities for discussion within their households and beyond.

Outside the family, communities provide broader platforms for engagement. In Kenya, for example, public forums known as barazas serve as spaces where community members gather to discuss pressing issues, such as insecurity and public utilities, and to make decisions that impact the neighborhood. Ensuring that your household is represented in these forums is essential to staying informed and being part of decisions that directly affect you.

It’s equally important to help people understand the power of self-expression and active participation in decision-making spaces. By showing up and speaking out, individuals can contribute to meaningful change. Additionally, exposure to information and critical discussions is vital in today’s world, where misinformation and disinformation are prevalent. Families can address these challenges by having conversations at the dinner table, asking questions like, “Have you heard about this? What’s your understanding of misinformation? How can you avoid being misled online?”

By encouraging open dialogue and critical thinking in everyday interactions, we empower one another to navigate information responsibly and contribute to a more informed and engaged society.

Greene: Now, a question we ask everyone, who is your free speech hero? 

I have two. One is a Human Rights lawyer and a former member of Parliament Gitobu Imanyara.  He is one of the few people in Kenya who fought by blood and sweat, literally, for the freedom of speech and that of the press in Kenya. He will always be my hero when we talk about press freedom. We are one of the few countries in Africa that enjoys extreme freedoms around speech and press freedom and it’s thanks to people like him. 

The other is an activist named Boniface Mwangi. He’s a person who never shies away from speaking up. It doesn’t matter who you are or how dangerous it gets, Boni, as he is popularly known, will always be that person who calls out the government when things are going wrong. You’re driving on the wrong side of the traffic just because you’re a powerful person in government. He'll be the person who will not move his car and he’ll tell you to get back in your lane. I like that. I believe when we speak up we make things happen.

Greene: Anything else you want to add? 

I believe it’s time we truly recognize and understand the importance of freedom of expression and speech. Too often, these rights are mentioned casually or taken at face value, without deeper reflection. We need to start interrogating what free speech really means, the tools that enable it, and the ways in which this right can be infringed upon.

As someone passionate about community empowerment, I believe the key lies in educating people about these rights—what it looks like when they are fully exercised and what it means when they are violated and especially in today’s digital age. Only by raising awareness can we empower individuals to embrace these freedoms and advocate for better policies that protect and regulate them effectively. This understanding is essential for fostering informed, engaged communities that can demand accountability and meaningful change.